Talk:Genophage
The Cure It sucks that Shepard destroyed the cure instead of attempting to copy or salvage it... I assume most players would have wanted to. Perhaps in later Mass Effect games, you could return to the ruins on Virmire, and find something that survived the nuclear blast? Perhaps Sovereign carried it in his memory banks, and once destroyed, it may be recoverable from debris in the Citadel? Perhaps some of the geth had already transmitted the cure to their base, where Shepard finds the geth OSD that he gives to Tali to decode? Is there any other indication, speculation, or hint that the cure got offworld? :As Saren was able to find a cure, it's clearly possible. So other scientists can do this, too, if they want. The last point will probably be the problem... --Irian 14:41, 7 June 2008 (UTC) ::The Codex entry for the genophage states that every cell in every krogan had to be infected for the genophage to be effective, otherwise the krogan could use gene therapy to counteract it. If you turn the logic around, that means that if you could find a krogan cell without the genophage present, you could use gene therapy to cure it. Maybe Saren found some krogan leftovers from the Rebellions, before the genophage: some krogan warlord who stuck himself in cryogenic stasis or was preserved somehow. Failing that - Saren's krogan troops are presumably 'cured' of the genophage, so all you'd have to do is take one alive (heh, volunteers?) and study their DNA to see what's different. --Tullis 09:08, 27 June 2008 (UTC) :::I wonder if there was a pre-genophage krogan found on the same ship that the rachni eggs were found on. Boter 22:19, December 16, 2009 (UTC) The cure was cloning... there were stuff that looked like clone tanks and many people said so in the official ME forums.. :I don't think the cure would be anything as obvious as cloning. Someone would have tried it already. And furthermore, cloning in and of itself would not constitute a cure, as the clones would also be afflicted with the genophage. It would be the same as building a car with a fatal design flaw, then mass producing it as is but claiming to have fixed it. And not to be rude, but just because something "looks" like something else doesn't mean it's the same. And just because "many people" said something on a forum (official or not) doesn't make it so. Unless it comes directly from the game, books, or BioWare, it's heresay, nothing more. SpartHawg948 01:25, 11 December 2008 (UTC) ::True, we can't include mere speculation in these articles. Are there any in-game sources that can prove how the genophage cure works, one way or the other? EliTe X HeRo 11:52, 5 January 2009 (UTC) So what's up with the language in the article like referring to Shepard's "inexplicable" actions? I presume they're explicable if you actually play the game... 09:19, 8 April 2009 (UTC) :From that I take it you haven't played Virmire. The language is hyperbole (and may be edited for bias later) but it's understandable hyperbole. :A lot of us who've played it wanted the chance to secure the genophage cure rather than just blow up the facility. But there's absolutely no opportunity to do so and Shepard has no chance to mediate between Kirrahe and Wrex to agree to a compromise (say, find the cure but restrict its use). There's not even a chance to discuss it, Kirrahe just decides for you. People talk a lot about the Rachni Queen choice on Noveria, but Virmire forces you to agree to let the krogan go extinct when there's a possible alternative, and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it. Given the rest of Mass Effect's choices, 'inexplicable' sort of covers it. --Tullis 12:49, 8 April 2009 (UTC) ::In early drafts of Virmire there was the option to take the cure. It was discussed twice - once during the confrontation with Wrex, and again where you found it in Saren's base. I don't know why it was cut; I suspect it was a scheduling / complexity thing. -- Stormwaltz 16:17, 8 April 2009 (UTC) ::Maybe it was for the drama. They may have wanted to keep their options open for future games. I would've liked to save the cure, but I think it would be dramatically lame to do so in the first part of the trilogy.--Effectofthemassvariety 07:30, December 4, 2009 (UTC) :: :: They could have been genetically modifieing krogan embryos just like you can genetically modify a human embryo so that the resulting baby wouldnt have any diseases that the parents might have and then you can pick what things in the krogan you wanted and then simply clone the genetically modified krogan that is immune to the genophage.--Jawsx1000 4:53, june 22, 2010 :: I know this is very old, now, but it was a cloning facility. In addition to all that has been said here in the prologue of Mass Effect 2 where you first take the shuttle of the beginning map (space station) Miranda says it was a cloning facility. So yeah, there never was a real cure. --Theh5 (talk) 09:03, April 9, 2017 (UTC) Krogan Clones If you read the Krogan Doctor's entry in the Wikipedia, it says that there are CLONING chambers in his office or whatever. This is possibly what the "Genophage cure" was. Cloning. :This has been discussed above, along with an explanation of why straight cloning is likely not the answer. Also, cloning chambers could used for more than creating literal clones; replicating tissue samples, for example. Actually, that line from Doctor Droyas' article should probably be taken out; there's no evidence that they're cloning pods. --Tullis 04:56, 17 August 2009 (UTC) ::Yeah, no. It was cloning. (I know this is old but it's more for confirmation than anything else) In the prologue of Mass Effect 2 it was said by Miranda, when first taking the shuttle of the starting map (space station) that it was a cloning facility. To which extent isn't specified, could merely have been cloning Krogan balls then transplanting... But suffice it to say that it was a cloning facility in nature, at least the relevant part to this conversation of the layout. --Theh5 (talk) 09:06, April 9, 2017 (UTC) Binary Helix You know, I feel really stupid, but I never put the cure and Binary Helix together. I'm just trying to figure out how the cure could've gotten into Saren's hands. There are many possible ways. I'm interested to hear what others think about this.--Effectofthemassvariety 07:24, December 4, 2009 (UTC) :If you listen to one of the random vid-broadcasts in the elevators on the Citadel and talk to the people on Noveria, you'll find out that Saren invests heavily in Binary Helix and that Binary Helix was contracted by a group of krogan to develop a cure for the genophage. Although the vid does say that it "produced no viable results", that doesn't mean that it isn't possible that they developed the cure and Saren convinced them to not use it. This is all just speculation on my part, but I think that this is the most likely scenario. UnluckyIrish14 22:11, December 16, 2009 (UTC) ::It's also possible that Saren convinced Binary Helix to not release the results, or to tell the krogan group that they weren't viable. Given that he had enough say with the company to make them let Benezia into the (rachni-infested) hot labs without any argument, it's entirely possible that he could convince them to lie or withhold data. Or both. -- 04:37, June 15, 2011 (UTC) :::If we are going to speculate about this, then please take it to the appropriate places, which is the forums or a blog post as this isn't what talk pages are for. Lancer1289 04:42, June 15, 2011 (UTC) Use of 'Total War' Wasn't as much space in the edit box as I would have liked to flesh out my reason for removing the inaccurate use of the phrase total war. Basically, what it boils down to is this: Militarily speaking, total war is a domestic policy term. Total war is when every possible resource at the disposal of the state (personnel, industry, agriculture, etc) is committed to the sole purpose of supporting the war effort. It has very little, if anything, to do with offensive action taken against the enemy. Of course, it is impossible to actually have a state of total war, as there will always need to be resources relegated to non-war functions, but good examples of the closest approximations we've seen would be Germany, the Soviet Union and, to a lesser extent, the United States during World War II. The use of the genophage against the krogans would be better likened to either absolute war or massive retaliation, both of which are terms used to describe offensive action. SpartHawg948 02:16, December 12, 2009 (UTC) :Sure. The change still makes sense to the casual reader, and with a Wikipedia link, I have no problem with the edit. --Tullis 13:30, December 12, 2009 (UTC) :: Dude you just gave a speach out of world war z concerning total war. 12:08, December 20, 2009 (UTC) :::While that is a good book, and I eagerly await the movie, the post I made above was in my own words, based on my own understanding of the concept, supplemented by the wikipedia articles, and I suppose maybe also a little bit subconsciously by World War Z. Gotta watch out for them zombies! SpartHawg948 12:12, December 20, 2009 (UTC) :::: When you're taking a dump, is that a dump for victory?- 10:40, April 14, 2011 (UTC) :::::If taken in furtherance of the war effort, sure. Especially if the waste itself is used to further the effort. There are practical applications for human waste, after all. SpartHawg948 18:56, April 14, 2011 (UTC) SO? The genophage was never meant to render the krogan extinct acording to mordin, nor does it actually effect their fertility it actualyl prevents children developing properly, and also according to him the rate at which the krogan reproduce because of the genophage is actually pre industrial levels and not meant to kill the species, i can understand all of this in fact i had speculated most of this. But are these massive retcons or are they clarifications on facts, thats all i want to know. ralok 17:49, January 31, 2010 (UTC) I would say clarifications, Wrex himself says the main reason why the krogan are dying is because they're not united and wouldn't stop killing each other. For all we know krogen can lay 1000 eggs at a time. Uh.... Don't Krogan birth live young? I would assume they do, based on the fact there isn't evidence to contrary. And the only sapiant race not to do such is Salarians. And besides, Wrex said only one in a thousand make it to being born alive. Most are still born. If Krogan laid eggs, they'd never hatch.--Allurade Dendra 03:13, February 14, 2010 (UTC) Yes, Krogan birth live young - 'pregnancy' is mentioned in one of the Codex entries. But given their extremely high natural fertility rate, we can only guess that in order to have such a high fertility rate they must have a short gestation period and probably a rapid development from child to adult. Couple this with a long lifespan and perhaps a similarly long period during which their bodies produce ova, and their fertility rate becomes extremely high. A lot of it is a matter of perception. Wrex and other Krogan see their species as dying because they're not growing or getting stronger, and the constant reminder of all those miscarried/stillborn children certainly can't help their impression. But even Wrex admits that if they concentrated on breeding for one generation, they'd get stronger even with the genophage, which coincides rather well with Mordin's explanation. The use of the term 'fertility' may be confusing however, since it's generally perceived to mean the capacity to conceive. I wouldn't call it a retcon, but it may be a confusing way to phrase it since people assume that adjusting the fertility rate would not result in increasing miscarriages or stillbirths.--Mnemnosyne 11:49, February 14, 2010 (UTC) :Wrex explains that as a clan leader, he had argued with other clan leaders for concentrating on breeding for one generation, and he was making progress with that argument until his father betrayed him. That suggests that there was at least reason to believe that the limited fertility caused by the genophage was not, in itself, an insurmountable problem for the krogan, but the additional problems of violent infighting and a concomitant lack of social cohesion did make it a crisis. :Also, it looks like the different cultures are all busy founding new colonies and expanding their territory, in competition with each other. For instance, in the Bring Down the Sky DLC, the batarian leader explains that he believes the batarians have been injured by the humans, because the humans have colonized more worlds in the Attican Traverse. That suggests an understanding that failing to expand is, in itself, a weakness. If the krogan are not expanding, then they are weakening in relation to the other cultures in Council space, even if their numbers and territory remain constant. FoolishOwl 08:30, April 16, 2012 (UTC) WHAT ABOUT GRUNT MORONS! I am sure he was made to be the cure he does say he is a Pureblood Krogan. So mabe he is amune to the Genophage. :No. If you had listened what EDI said, Grunt has the Genophage. -Supakillaii 09:28, March 10, 2010 (UTC) ::And how, pray tell, would someone be "amune" to the genophage? I can see being immune, but amune? And no, Grunt was not made to be the cure to the genophage. Remember the part when Okeer said he was going to commit the gravest insult possible against the genophage, which was to IGNORE it? You don't ignore a disease by curing it. SpartHawg948 09:37, March 10, 2010 (UTC) FORGET IT! And I got a qustione. ( I think I mispaled that.) WHY WOUD'NT YOU MAKE THE GUY YOU CLONED INMUNED!? What the Devil! I mean if i had a chaince to make a cure for a disease that are killing my peaple WHY WOULD YOU JUST IGNORE IT!!!!???? :Spell check is your friend... Anyway. If you'd listen to Mordrin you'd see that the Genophage effects DNA codes. The Krogan already came close to adapting past it. Mordrin and others stopped that.--Allurade Dendra 20:27, March 12, 2010 (UTC) ::Also, Grunt isn't a clone. He's genetically engineered using the genes of several other krogan. A clone is a direct copy of one individual, and Grunt isn't. And asking why you wouldn't make a clone immune presupposes that you can make the clone immune. No indication was given that Okeer possessed the ability to make a genophage-free krogan. As for why Okeer would just ignore the genophage, he explains that pretty well. SpartHawg948 21:22, March 12, 2010 (UTC) :::Sorry for the necro, but Okeer technically had the possibility to made Grunt immune to genophage. Parts of his genetic code comes from Shiagur, which we know as a fertile female warlord. Assuming that he knew what was the gene that the Salarians altered to make the Krogans sterile, he should have replaced it with a pure one. Probably, the fact that he had limited time to work on his "legacy" and/or an accurate consideration of a no-genophage scenario stopped him from doing so. Anonymous 12.30, Febraury 14, 2011 (GMT) ::::Yeah, no. That's making some big assumptions. After all, technically speaking, all krogan females are still fertile. After all, it's made clear that the genophage does not have anything to do with fertility. To quote the Codex: "It genophage did not reduce fertility, but offspring viability." So again, all females, even post-genophage, are fertile. Shiagur likely just had a better success rate at producing viable offspring. As for "the gene that the Salarianssic altered to make the Kroganssic sterile", there is no such thing. Firstly, as is made clear many times, the genophage does not make krogan sterile. Secondly, it's not something that impacts just one gene. It's systemic. To again quote the Codex, "The genophage virus gained the energy to replicate by "eating" key genetic sequences. Every cell in every krogan had to be altered for the weapon to be foolproof; otherwise the krogan could have used gene therapy to fix the affected tissues." (emphasis added) So, there is still as yet no indication that Okeer had the ability to make Grunt immune to the genophage, and he clearly did not have the necessary intent. SpartHawg948 06:36, February 15, 2011 (UTC) The krogan that made grunt said something along that lines the genophage cuddles the young and that grunt will be the perfect krogan that will lead them to great victory. He did make the point that he did not cure Grunt of the genophage and they will carry it with them, making their victory a triumph even with the disease. (might reference a christian belief that every believer needs to carry the cross like jesus) It is also irrelevent if Grunt does not the disease, he needs to mate with a female and the genophage has its greatest effect in that gender. It may even be possible that the genophage was only designed to be in the female dna, however, that is speculation. 05:19, March 8, 2012 (UTC) Why Did Moridin doomed the KROGAN!? Whiy would he alow the krogan to die? Why did he not just allowed them to adapt to it? (I am sorry about eirlier, I did not play the game yet.) Why would he allow possible extition of the Krogan? I think he should have not DONE ANYTHING! It was find when they did it to end the Genophage, but not then. I mean't the Krogan rebelions, not the Genophage. :Mordin wasn't around during the Krogan Rebellions. That was well over 1,000 years before the game even starts in 2183. So how could have Mordin done anything about it, he wasn't even born yet. Lancer1289 19:39, May 31, 2010 (UTC) Yup. Mordin has as much impact on what happened during the Krogan Rebellions as Grunt had on what happened during the Rachni Wars- which is to say, none. SpartHawg948 20:41, May 31, 2010 (UTC) Yeah, Mordin just evolved the Genophage. And he did so because it was the only option that did not end in the extinction of the krogan.MEffect Fan 20:45, May 31, 2010 (UTC) :Genophage dont kill krogan, krogan culture kills krogan, well technically the all is doomed mentality is what kills the krogan. Wrex is trying to fix it, give him a minute would ya. ralok 20:51, May 31, 2010 (UTC) I KNOW HE WAS NOT AROUD DURRING THE KROGAN REBELIONS! What I am saying is why did he evovled it? : Play the game and find out. PhoenixBlue 23:05, June 19, 2010 (UTC) Galactic ignorince. They (the Council) thought the Krogan would grow powerful again and try to conquer the galaxy. So they hired scinentists to evolve the genophage so the Krogan genetic code would not adapt to the then current version. MEffect Fan 22:10, June 19, 2010 (UTC) :Because the krogan have made no attempt to alter their society in a way that would demonstrate any change. Far from galactic ignorance, the Council merely looked at krogan society, saw that it hadn't changed at all, that the krogan were still warlike and hell-bent on conquest, and decided to take action. After all, what would happen if the krogan were allowed to reproduce at the levels they did prior to the genophage? They'd go right out and attempt to conquer the Citadel races again. Remember how mad the Germans were after WWI and the Treaty of Versailles? First chance they got, they rearmed and tried it again. Now multiply that by about 500, and you begin to understand the severity of the situation. And please go back and reassess the situation. Your first post asks why Mordin would allow the krogan to die. This is flat-out wrong. He never did anything of the sort, and says himself that the krogan MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO GO EXTINCT. You are asking why Mordin did something that he didn't do. SpartHawg948 22:22, June 19, 2010 (UTC) ::I agree, because the krogan have made little, if no attempt to evolve their society,, a return to the krogan birthrate that was present during the Korgan Rebellions, would be a disaster. Mordin said that the krogan have a lot to offer and if they were to unite, he would welcome that. Also Mordin states that he would have argued against the genophage during the Krogan Rebellions, but since he wasn't there then, he did what he could in the present. The krogan have a lot to offer, and if they do unite, I'm sure it will be better for the galaxy. Lancer1289 23:29, June 19, 2010 (UTC) I will sut up now, if that is okay by you?! Genophage inspiration I'll make a safe bet that that it's this. It also provides a rational justification for steps like the Genophage, for those that debate it's morality. Darth Something 14:56, November 8, 2010 (UTC) :I have to say that is really stretching it, or at least based on what I read on Wikipedia. The circumstances are completely different and also the krogan and Moties are completely different in much more respects then they are the same. I really can't see this as inspiration for the genophage as there are many more differences than similarities. There are many more possible inspirations, and a few from Star Trek, can't remember them offhand right now, that are much more likely. Also the facts of the game give a very reasonable solution. There are plenty of other, much more reasonable solutions. While it is true the krogan did have a massive birth rate, there are many other reasons that they did have that explosive birth rate. Lancer1289 15:18, November 8, 2010 (UTC) ::Yeah... I have to say, I see some similarities between the Moties and the krogan when looking solely at birth rate. Nothing else though. Just that one, extremely narrow field. One could easily select any number of other sci-fi races that have as much in common with them, likely even more. And, given that the "Motie problem" hasn't been solved in the novel, and they are only talking about maybe finding some way in the future to curtail Motie birth rate, I can't see the inspiration for the genophage here. SpartHawg948 21:13, November 8, 2010 (UTC) The reason for the insane birth rate was adaptation. The Krogan homeworld was so hard to survive in that there population was under control Krogan-Centric Worlds It isn't possible for the Genophage to have spread to ALL Krogan! If I remember correctly, I think Mordin said that the Genophage was put on Krogan-Centric Worlds, so not all Krogan may have it. There could be a family of Krogan who has no Genophage in them, also on a World where Krogan were almost never seen. If this was both canon and known by Okeer, then I bet Okeer would have also used their genes to counter-act the genophage. :What we know is that, when the turians deployed the genophage, they did so on all worlds with known krogan presences. The exact wording, taken from the Codex, is: "The krogan homeworld, their colonies, and all occupied worlds were infected." Not just krogan-centric worlds. Every world controlled, occupied, or colonized by krogan. We also have absolutely no indication that there are krogan who do not have the genophage. Nothing of the sort has ever been stated. Nor is there any reason to assume that Warlord Okeer knew of any such krogan, or that he was working on, or had any desire to work on, a cure for the genophage. Remember that bit where he said he was going to inflict the greatest insult possible upon the genophage by ignoring it? He made clear, he had no desire to cure it. SpartHawg948 20:29, January 28, 2011 (UTC) ::Indeed we do know Okeer was planning to ignore the genophage and was making no attempts to cure it. We also do know that all krogan bear the genophage and not one was missed which we know from the Codex and from various other sources. As Spart already said we have no canon source stating that there were any krogan that were missed, or that any krogan don't have the genophage. Even Grunt had the genetic markings of the genophage. The quote you are referring to is when Mordin's team deployed the modified genophage. I had to dig to find this video, and one with subtitles just to be safe. Go to about 1:25 and watch and Mordin says krogan-centric areas not worlds, big difference. I'm sure they deployed it to all areas eventually, but to those areas first. Since there are very few krogan-centric areas left, I'm sure they probably got them all. But all krogan have the genophage, not just some. Lancer1289 21:34, January 28, 2011 (UTC) :I think it's very possible, I can't remember the exact language of it, but I think it was implied that part of the reason the Genophage spread was because it moved like a traditional virus as well as spreading like an STD, so if the Turian fleet missed any worlds,the Krogan's attempt at making as many Krogan as possible before it was too late did.-- 16:12, June 15, 2011 (UTC) ::I can't seem to remember this specific phrase, but we do know it can be passed through things like the water supply. Perhaps a video would be good. Lancer1289 16:17, June 15, 2011 (UTC) Renaming it to "The Genophage" It has never been referred as simply "genophage" Bump How it Works Doesn't Mordin (or maybe Maelon) say somewhere (either on the Normandy or during his loyalty mission) that the way the genophage works is to prevent the development of the nervous system in all but a few krogan fetuses? I know someone talks about what it specifically does in ME2. We should definitely add that (once we figure out what it was). TheUnknown285 (talk) 05:26, March 12, 2013 (UTC) I was replaying the series recently and I noticed Mordin claims that the Genophage only affects fertility and doesn't kill, yet in the first game Wrex says that most babies are stillborn, if it only affects fertility shouldn't the females just not get pregnant? Should date of release/time in effect information be included here. I was attempting to discover how long the genophage had been in use, but after visiting this page noticed that there was no information here about how long it has been in effect or when it was released, other than references to the Krogan Rebelions. I remembered hearing it being stated by Wrex during the summit meeting held on the SSV Normandy, but couldn't remember how long it had been in effect. To find the answer I began linking to other pages and tried to find it there, while at the same time running several youtube videos of the summit meeting. I got the answer from youtube (1476 years) at about the same time as I did by using the timeline to find when it was released (710CE) and then subtracting that from the date of events in Mass effect 3 (2186CE). Would it not be a good idea to include this information in this article to make it easier for people to locate this information? --TSwiftFan1346 (talk) 08:32, October 23, 2013 (UTC)